[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 Roadmap thoughts

[Jon Whitener]

I agree strongly with Seb.  The importance of a well-managed migration cannot be overstated.  The level of Zope community commitment to easing the jump from Zope 2 to Zope 3 will have a major effect of Zope's acceptance and future.

I will help however I can.

Jon Whitener
Detroit Michigan USA

At 1/29/03 08:18 AM, seb bacon wrote:
>Paul - this is a timely set of observations.
>
>The Zope 2 meme (to use a Paulism ;-) is gaining mindshare at an astonishing rate.  Misconceptions or ambiguities regarding Zope 3 could massively disrupt the business requirements which are driving this growth, and thereby cause problems for all of us who work with Zope on a daily basis.
>
>I know many others think this is crucially important.  I, too,  have personally come across people who have been put off Zope 2 / confused / scared by Zope 3.
>
>But you are right, this is not the right forum in which to discuss these matters.  This is an important enough issue that I propose a Zope 2 migration working group, which will consider:
>
> - Continuing support for Zope 2
> - 'Branding' of Zope 3 for the community
> - Upgrade paths, documentation, etc for Zope 2 -> Zope 3
>
>I think it should have a new mailing list, because it is too important to allow it to languish in a few isolated threads.
>
>Does anyone agree, or will I be in a mailing list on my own?
>
>:-)
>
>seb
>
>Paul Everitt wrote:
>>Jim Fulton wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Here is an update on my thoughts with respect to the timeline for
>>>Zope 3 releases:
>>>
>>>For Zope 3x:
>>>[...]
>>I've been talking to Kai Wu, a former engineering manager at ArsDigita who is now in the Zope community.  His lessons-learned on the transition to ACS 4 might be informative:
>>"""
>>The ACS never gained major momentum largely because, I believe, there were several major technology jumps (ACS 3, to ACS 4, then ACS Java, all within 2 years) that made it difficult for users and customers to keep pace and ultimately they lost trust in our management of the product. Even though we felt we had to upgrade the ACS "plumbing," of course this too-rapid rate of change entailed a host of other problems: missing documentation, missing functionality, client and user wait-and-see syndrome, and Faith That the Next Version Will Deliver Us (and users)  From Evil that causes undue optimism on delivery dates - and compromises on quality that come back to haunt you.
>>Zope2 and Plone let me do what I've always wanted with a web app framework: deploy a community and content-driven site quickly that looks great out of the box, with the knowledge that the technical engine underneath is powerful and flexible. I would hate to see a crippling loss of leadership and momentum around what already works and works well, with room to grow further still. With such a skilled and involved community, surely a way to continue wowing the world with Zope2/CMF/Plone can be balanced with a smooth introduction and long-term transition to Zope3.
>>"""
>>IMO, we should give some priority to investigate ways to manage the transition.  And we need to communicate more about this, so business people know what to expect, and feel comfortable using Zope 2, CMF, and friends.
>>[...]