[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] CVS: Zope3/src/zope/app/browser/skins/rotterdam - template.pt:1.25

[Tres Seaver]

On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 14:56, Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Thursday 01 May 2003 14:29, Tres Seaver wrote:
> >   - Uncomment the XML navigation tree, because that change stripped out
> >     essential functionality on purely esthetic grounds:
> 
> It cannot be that we have a checkin war about this, so let's discuss it and 
> resolve the issue.
> 
> As I see it, we have a alpha/beta release coming up, so we need a stable UI. 
> The current UI needs a lot of work, but I do not think that we have many (if 
> any) capable people people of doing it all without table. So the result is a 
> lot of unprofessional and broken HTML/CSS. 

I am not arguing *for* messy look-and-feel.  I *am* arguing that
stripping out functionality because the presentation is ugly is
counter-productive:  nobody will fix it if they don't see it.
 
> I totally agree with Guido, that it is unacceptable for us to have text run 
> over boxes and I experienced myself that the overflowing navigation tree was 
> hiding important information (when I worked in Mozilla). There are many other 
> places in the code where this happens.
> 
> So we have two choices in my opinion:
> 
> (1) Lobby in the community for some UI experts to join in for this 
> task/project.

I tried to bring it up in discussion, and got unacceptable responses
("you can just type the right majyk URL").

> (2) Lower the UI requirements to a HTML/CSS level we all can handle, i.e. use 
> tables and basic CSS.
> 
> >     o The XML tree is the only reasonable navigation device for
> >       the Zope3 UI.  Requiring people to type ".../++foo++..." URLS
> >       is a *way* bigger usability hit than the bleed-throughs.
> 
> This is not true. Breadcrumbs are doing just fine. And anyhow, the nav tree 
> does not work in to Konqui. I want the old Z2 version back. :-(

Breadcrumbs do *not* supply the same need.  They give you no way to
browse to any part of the site except your immediate parents.  If we
need to manage the tree's overflow better, then we can look at other
strategies:  put it into an <iframe>, for instance.

> >     o The tree provided the only canonical means of triggering
> >       authentication.  Requiring the user to edit the URL (adding
> >       '/@@manage' in this case) is again a huge usability hit.
> 
> I think using the nav tree for authentication is not the right method either, 
> so why don't we implement a login/logout?

Who was talking about limited amounts of developer time? :)

Tres.
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Tres Seaver                                tseaver@zope.com
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