[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] CVS: Zope3/src/zope/app/browser/skins/rotterdam - template.pt:1.25

[Paul Everitt]

Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Thursday 01 May 2003 14:29, Tres Seaver wrote:
> 
>>  - Uncomment the XML navigation tree, because that change stripped out
>>    essential functionality on purely esthetic grounds:
> 
> 
> It cannot be that we have a checkin war about this, so let's discuss it and 
> resolve the issue.
> 
> As I see it, we have a alpha/beta release coming up, so we need a stable UI. 
> The current UI needs a lot of work, but I do not think that we have many (if 
> any) capable people people of doing it all without table. So the result is a 
> lot of unprofessional and broken HTML/CSS. 
> 
> I totally agree with Guido, that it is unacceptable for us to have text run 
> over boxes and I experienced myself that the overflowing navigation tree was 
> hiding important information (when I worked in Mozilla). There are many other 
> places in the code where this happens.

I agree it's bad, but I don't agree that it has been unacceptible.  I do 
agree that, from the time that we want a less "work in progress" 
product, it should be fixed.  Perhaps that time is now.

> So we have two choices in my opinion:
> 
> (1) Lobby in the community for some UI experts to join in for this 
> task/project.

We don't need UI "experts", but we do need more activity by the people 
that are willing to work on common web technologies.  I know I 
personally haven't done the contributions I had hoped.

IMO, I don't think you'll find too many UI experts willing to learn 
enough of the CA necessary to be productive.  So this isn't a realistic 
alternative.

> (2) Lower the UI requirements to a HTML/CSS level we all can handle, i.e. use 
> tables and basic CSS.

There's already a Basic skin.  Perhaps this should be made the default.

>>    o The XML tree is the only reasonable navigation device for
>>      the Zope3 UI.  Requiring people to type ".../++foo++..." URLS
>>      is a *way* bigger usability hit than the bleed-throughs.
> 
> 
> This is not true. Breadcrumbs are doing just fine. And anyhow, the nav tree 
> does not work in to Konqui. I want the old Z2 version back. :-(

Rotterdam will never work in Konqui.  Rotterdam wasn't aimed at you. :^)

The problem is that Rotterdam is the default.  I'm against dumbing down 
the possibilities of Rotterdam to satisfy a small percentage of browser 
share.  The thing currently known as Rotterdam should work using 
standards that are implemented by a enough browsers on enough platforms.

The better answer is to make Basic the default skin, or make skin 
switching easier.

There is little chance that one UI will please all people.  And the TTW 
UI is intended for a class of people with different brains than the 
developers of Zope 3.

--Paul