[Zope3-dev] Zope 3 Newsletter: Issue 10

[Martijn Faassen]

Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Sunday 07 September 2003 12:56, Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
> > Except for Python Scripts.  This entry point here could be smoothed
> > over with a good "How to do scripting in Zope" document.  Most
> > 'scripters' are hopefully smart enough to latch on to the concept.
> 
> You still have to change the mind-set of the scripter. Not everyone is ready 
> to do that when reading about Zope 3 and consider testing it. We need to 
> provide ways for an early success.

I agree we need to fit the scripter's mindset. I think everybody agrees
that Zope 3 needs facilities to support scripters. 

I think everybody also agrees that Zope 3 needs facilities to contain
scripters from doing too much harm, and a way to guide them in the
right direction.

We shouldn't set up a situation where there will be a pressure to add
features to Zope 3 to 'do it the wrong way'. Compare with DTML, where it
started simple without, if I'm correct, even Python expressions. Python
expressions were added, and dtml-let and dtml-return, etc, etc, because
people were trying to write programs with DTML.

Why? Because it was the smallest and easiest step they could take,
even though for most people it was a path to doom. There were
better ways (write products, or even just use external methods), but
they were harder to get into and less obvious. Scripters behave a bit like
Darwinian evolution; they only can take small easy steps into the right
direction, and can't really do leaps.

The script tag in ZPT could be seen as a relatively small and easy step
to support scripters. This may be all right, or it may lead to awful messes
that could be prevented and to pressure to do more evil as scripters will be 
clamoring for more. I don't know. We're debating this.

Let's also consider more complicated ways (on the development side) to
support scripters and lead them in the right direction. Perhaps a 
ZPT/Python module hybrid development model in software space, as was
already mentioned. What would that look like? Perhaps an easy way to convert
ZPTs in content space to things in software space? If content-space
ZPTs are a strict subset of the same in software space that'd be nice,
for instance (the script tag would make this not true, though).
Perhaps the UI can be modified so that it *looks* like you're putting
things in content space even though you're really putting them into
software space instead?

Regards,

Martijn