[Zope3-dev] Re: Moving more stuff to zope.products

[Casey Duncan]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:00:14 -0500
Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:

> Casey Duncan wrote:
> > On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:43:27 +0100
> > Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp at weitershausen.de> wrote:
[..]
> 
> Right, the default will be Folder. You will be able to override this
> with something else.  90% of Zope users will not care to do so,
> however, and certainly won't want to have to.

Yes, count me into the 10% ;^)
 
> > I'm not just speaking hypothetically here. The fact the OFS.Folder
> > is part of the Zope2 core bothers the heck out of me.
> 
> Sorry to hear that. :)
> 
>  > Granted the contract
> > of ObjectManager does too. Anyhow, I feel relatively assured we
> > won't wind up with that sort of thing in Zope3 since they are a
> > direct result of the mixin class model and lack in separation of
> > concerns that pervade Zope2.
> 
> I don't understand what that has to do with it.  Most people aren't
> going to totally refedine Zope at every level. They will want some
> standard batteries to be included.

Absolutely, I'm not arguing whether it should include a folder,
template, document, etc. It absolutely should. I just think these
"content type" definitions should be in a product rather than in the
core.

In my mind content types, no matter how generic, inevitably define
policy. Their presence or absence alone is policy. Of course a default
policy is crucial to the system taking hold especially with "scripters",
I'd just like to see it close to the surface so that I can skim it off
if I want ;^)

> >>Btw, I also feel kind of strongly about making Templated Page and
> >>Python Page (and possibly Catalog!) separate from the other 'sane'
> >>content objects, such as File, Image, etc. *and* disable them by
> >>default. If people do not want to disable them by default, it should
> >>at least be a matter of one line in products.zcml to disable them.
> > 
> > 
> > I don't really see why any specific content objects need to come
> > with the core. 
> 
> To make it usable.

I should have been more clear. They can come with the distro (as
products), just not in the core IMO.

> > It seems a bit silly to ship products with Zope3 that are disabled
> > by default. Things that are disabled probably should be separate
> > from the main distro.
> 
> What ships with Zope 3 is an open issue that we aren't really thinking
> about yet.  Some of the things in zope.products will be shipped in
> common distributions, and some won't be.

Yup. I think of the Zope3 core like a Linux kernel. Every Linux distro
has a shell, fs, utilites, etc., but they aren't part of the kernel.
Every Zope3 distro will have some views and content types and utilities,
but they aren't necessarily part of the core.

If this turns out to be the case, it will be interesting to see how many
distros of Zope3 take form.
 
-Casey