[Zope3-dev] Siesia: A new UI for Zope 3

[Jim Fulton]

Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 May 2004 01:44, Jim Fulton wrote:
> 
>>>The issue at hand, really, is that Zope's skinning mechanism sucks.
>>
>>Hm, I think we still need to work on communication. :(
>>Aside from being inflamatory, this statement has no content.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I guess I over-summarized. But I distinctly remember Paul criticizing 
> this approach about a year ago.

If you want to provide a reference to a specific problem statement by Paul, that
would be a tep forward.




> Skins +Layers use a hierarchical tree or 
> inheritance,

Actually, it's more like a named search path,


 > but most other UI generation system use a pipe. This makes it
 > really hard for designers to use well-established patterns.

I think you are mixing apples and oranges.

UI generation in Zope is done through application of templates, with
libraries of reusable presentation bits. Many many systems use this
approach. For example Dreamweaver has a library mechanism that allows
you to have reusable page components not that differeent from macros.
This has little to do with skins.

The pipeline model is very XML-centric.  It's very familiar to people
who work with XMLT. I don't think it's familiar at all to people who use
tools like Dreamweaver.

I think that the pipeline model has some merit.  I know that there are
problems that it addresses that are awkward for the template-based approach.
Similarly, I think that simple content substitution is more naturally
expressed with templates. I think that both approaches have a place.

I'll note that skins (named search paths) are equally applicable to
a template bases approach or a pipeline-based approach. Skins could be
used to access different pipeline or pipeline element definitions depending
on the skin being used.

...

> As stated above, the problem is that designers cannot use established 
> transformation patterns and common practices in Zope,

Perhaps you should ask a Dreamweaver jocky about established transform
patterns,

 > since its rendering
> mechanisms do not support them. In the mail I tried to sketch out a solution 
> for implementing the transformation pipeline, so designers could use the 
> piped transformations pattern.

I agree that it would be nice to be able to support transforms at some point.
I suggest we defer this until after X3.0 to avoid time-consuming distractions.

Jim

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