[Zope3-dev] Re: Bug 358/359, 367 fixed

[Roger Ineichen]

Hi Chris

From: zope3-dev-bounces+dev=projekt01.ch at zope.org 
> [mailto:zope3-dev-bounces+dev=projekt01.ch at zope.org] On 
> Behalf Of Chris Withers
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:39 AM
> To: dev at projekt01.ch
> Cc: zope3-dev at zope.org
> Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Bug 358/359, 367 fixed
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> Roger Ineichen wrote:
> >>That's disappointing to hear. I was under the impression that 
> >>the Zope 3 
> >>"ZMI" was expressly for developers, to avoid the hotch-potch 
> >>of target 
> >>audiences that resulted in the Zope 2 ZMI...
> > 
> > What do you mean exactly with 'hotch-potch'?
> 
> I mean that right at the start of the Z3 project (yes, that 
> long ago!) 
> one of the big complaints was that Z", and its ZMI in particular, was 
> focused on either developers or end users, and so ended up serving 
> neither audience very well.
> 
> > I think we can support a ZMI or just one skin for developers
> > and endusers. It' much easier if we have on skin where we now
> > in each level (dev and user) where the components are located.
> 
> I think re-usable components is a grand aim. My experience 
> says that any 
> standard management interface that comes with Zope should be geared 
> towards developers, since they're the people who will end up using it 
> most. End users will likely have a custom interface built fo rthem by 
> developers. It would be very useful if, in building that UI, 
> developers 
> could re-use components from the zmi, which is currently prettymuch 
> impossible in Zope 2.
> 
> > But for me there is no reason to have different Management 
> Interfaces
> > for users or developers.
> > 
> > Or do I miss some usecases?
> 
> You assume that developers and users have a similar level of 
> understanding of how a system like zope works. That is a 
> fatal error ;-)

Perhaps you are right. Let my explain in a different way.

What do you mean with "system like zope works"?

I agree if you speak about "all application which are developed with Zope"

I don't agree if you speak about the Zope3 Application Server.

The scope I was speaking about was "The Zope3 application server".

There is no reason to have different managment interfaces
like you propose as general. Then the Zope3 application server will never
contain 
a "built in CMS for endusers" like Plone.

Another question is what are the user groups of zope3 as "the application
server"?

In the document 
http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/UserGoalsAn
dUseCases
are the following definition:

ZopeEvaluator 
ContentManager 
SiteScripter 
SiteDesigner 
SiteDeveloper 
ComponentDeveloper 
InformationArchitect 
SiteManager 
WorkflowDesigner 
System Administrator

I mean the group "ContentManager" is not really correct.
Perhaps ConentManager will not directly work with the Zope application
server,
they will work with a application wich is build with the z3 application
server.

All other groups have to understand the z3 component architectur framework
or they can do nothing (right now). I'm not happy if we have to provide more
the one generic concept where in all level fit. This means there can be more
then one skin which provide 508 or xmlhttp. But allo of them have to work on
a standard concept.

If somebody needs a different concept for the ZMI and doesn't like the ZODB
object tree mapping in a browsable tree or likes to show components in a
nother location then they are, he is totaly free to implement it. The result
is something like Plone. It's very easy understandable for contentn editors,
but has nothing to do with a standard Zope3 application server management
interface.

I'm even not happy to see such flat management interface in real CMS
application, but that's another part.

We really have to provide the ZODB object tree ampping and the real
container hirarchie
in the ZMI. For all users groups of the zope3 application server.

If this doesn't fit to a user group, perhaps he will need a concret
applications like a CMS.

Can you agree with my description of what the Zope3 application server (ZMI)
should be?

Regards
Roger Ineichen

> Chris
> 
> -- 
> Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
>             - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
> _______________________________________________
> Zope3-dev mailing list
> Zope3-dev at zope.org
> Unsub: 
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/dev%40projekt01.ch
> 
>