[Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?

[Jeff Shell]

Why is WYSIWYG so important? Who's going to be editing all of that? I
don't want another zopewiki.org. I think that zopewiki.org is a good
site and that there should be an area of the site that's like that
which may be open to the world - but I'd like serious / fun / USABLE
documentation to be separate from that. You all know my feelings about
Wikis. I walk away from so many technical wikis frustrated. I finally
find a page I'm looking for, and it's contents are either:

---
MultiAdapter

A multi adapter adapts multiple objects
---

Or

---
HowToMakeAPie

I found this link to a tip on this other site and it seems cool.
http://www.example.com/how/to/make/a/pie
---

As an outsider trying to get started, it doesn't take long for me to
get frustrated and walk away. When I may be more settled in and
curious about more, full community recipe sites or wikis may be a
trove of terrific information. But don't waste my time making me click
on page after page. Look at how accessible the quick start, the about,
the docs, and more are accessible on TurboGears:

http://turbogears.org/

Ruby On Rails has a wiki, but it's a few steps back from the front
page, which again makes information well available:
http://www.rubyonrails.com/

Django's got an informative web site:
http://www.djangoproject.com/

Most of the information one would want on these sites are available
within a few clicks, without their front pages feeling cramped and
overloaded. Tutorials, quick starts, downloading, getting involved -
all close.

There are two nice quick start documents written in ReST already. Why
don't we make it easy for those authors to put those in a common place
first instead of debating over WYSIWYG editing? Let the smart people
put the first content together. Make it easy for new people to find
information over making it easy for new people to add noise. Are you
trying to attract outsiders so that they'll get excited and grow the
platform's base, or are you trying to keep Zope 3 within this small
community and make it easy for those within this small community to
tell each other what most of us already know? It sounds like the
priority has been on the latter - make it a site to drive development
of the Zope 3 platform itself. I think development is going fine with
the tools already in place. Lets drive adoption by making our message
heard!

And again - that's not to say that the development wiki or a community
wiki is excluded from that. But as I showed with the comments of just
one smart outsider - getting information about Zope 3 is a frustrating
process.

On 10/12/05, Martijn Faassen <faassen at infrae.com> wrote:
> Stephan Richter wrote:
> > On Tuesday 11 October 2005 12:41, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> >
> >>If anyone here really needs WYSIWYG, please make a point, but I doubt that
> >>there will be one...
> >
> >
> > It's a top priority for Jim. Uwe and I agreed we would prefer ReST.
>
> I got the impression from Jim that this was just an idea that he wanted
> to try out. Ideas you're eager to try are different than top priorities,
> right?
>
> Unfortunately having a wiki page in HTML and in ReST is rather
> incompatible; while you can translate ReST to HTML, HTML to ReST would
> at best be unreliable and confusing. This means HTML pages can only be
> edited as HTML ever.
>
> Then again, I'm interested in seeing how the idea would work. Whether
> that should be driving a Zope 3 site as a whole is another question.
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn
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