[Zope3-dev] Re: Need to get more involved in Web SIG (was Re: Fixing ZServer bugs?)

[Martijn Faassen]

Jim Fulton wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> Jim Fulton wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>>> I'm not certain that we're actively supporting either server.
>>
>> But *in practice* we're supporting the Twisted integration, as that's 
>> the only one that people use now, right?
> 
> Wrong. Use != support.
[snip]

Such a flat out "Wrong." from you invites me to continue quibbling over 
semantics some more, but I'll close this section of the discussion now. :)

>  > Now on to what we would *like* to do...
> 
> ...
> 
>> I'm having second thoughts about the Twisted integration for a number 
>> of reasons:
>>
>> * Twisted people actively dislike eggs. They won't eggify Twisted any 
>> time soon.
> 
> Yes, but I think they do use distutils source releases, so I think that
> shouldn't be a problem.  Do their source releases not work with eggs?

Last time I checked it didn't. I checked again. First I tried this to 
pull in a Twisted egg:

[buildout]
parts = devpython

[devpython]
recipe = zc.recipe.egg
interpreter = devpython
eggs = Twisted

That failed with it complaining it didn't have the ZopeInterface 
installed. Unfortunately zope.interface doesn't install with buildout 
yet, so this won't work:

[buildout]
parts = devpython

[devpython]
recipe = zc.recipe.egg
interpreter = devpython
eggs = zope.interface Twisted

even if zope.interface were downloaded and installed I'm not sure 
whether Twisted's check would pass or succeed. Would zope.interface be 
placed on the path during the buildout process so that Twisted would see it?

In general, it makes me uncomfortable to be relying on there being an 
egg when the project appears to have an active antipathy to easy_install 
and eggs.

>> * Twisted async approach doesn't really match Zope's threaded approach.
> 
> That isn't necessarily a problem. ZServer is based on an async approach 
> too. The impression I have, however, maybe incorrect, is that the Twisted 
> community isn't very interested in supporting applications not written according 
> to the Twisted Way.

I have the same impression. I can't blame them for that really; Zope is 
no different, though of course we're not in the server business. :)

>  I think that this makes their interest in WSGI, which 
> allows someone  to use Twisted without using the twisted APIs, marginal at best.

The discussion in the blog entry on that libevent based server gave me a 
bit of hope for Twisted's WSGI support, but I don't know whether any 
action has been taken.

Regards,

Martijn