[Zope3-dev] Re: Need to get more involved in Web SIG (was Re: Fixing ZServer bugs?)

[Jim Fulton]

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Jim Fulton wrote:
>> Martijn Faassen wrote:
...
>>> I'm having second thoughts about the Twisted integration for a number 
>>> of reasons:
>>>
>>> * Twisted people actively dislike eggs. They won't eggify Twisted any 
>>> time soon.
>>
>> Yes, but I think they do use distutils source releases, so I think that
>> shouldn't be a problem.  Do their source releases not work with eggs?
> 
> Last time I checked it didn't. I checked again. First I tried this to 
> pull in a Twisted egg:
> 
> [buildout]
> parts = devpython
> 
> [devpython]
> recipe = zc.recipe.egg
> interpreter = devpython
> eggs = Twisted
> 
> That failed with it complaining it didn't have the ZopeInterface 
> installed.

What it? When did it complain?

> Unfortunately zope.interface doesn't install with buildout 
> yet, so this won't work:

It doesn't? That's annoying. That's easy to fix and shouldn't
affect a long-term decision IMO.

> [buildout]
> parts = devpython
> 
> [devpython]
> recipe = zc.recipe.egg
> interpreter = devpython
> eggs = zope.interface Twisted
> 
> even if zope.interface were downloaded and installed I'm not sure 
> whether Twisted's check would pass or succeed. Would zope.interface be 
> placed on the path during the buildout process so that Twisted would see 
> it?

Hm, so it was checked by setup. Dang.  Well, we could hack around this
in various ways, but it wouldn't be fun.

> In general, it makes me uncomfortable to be relying on there being an 
> egg when the project appears to have an active antipathy to easy_install 
> and eggs.

It would be enough to rely on their being s source release that we could
use without too much pain. Of course that remains to be seen. :)
At this stage, I certainly wouldn't use the lack of egg support as a reason
to disqualify Twisted.

>>> * Twisted async approach doesn't really match Zope's threaded approach.
>>
>> That isn't necessarily a problem. ZServer is based on an async 
>> approach too. The impression I have, however, maybe incorrect, is that 
>> the Twisted community isn't very interested in supporting applications 
>> not written according to the Twisted Way.
> 
> I have the same impression. I can't blame them for that really; Zope is 
> no different, though of course we're not in the server business. :)

Yup.

>>  I think that this makes their interest in WSGI, which allows someone  
>> to use Twisted without using the twisted APIs, marginal at best.
> 
> The discussion in the blog entry on that libevent based server gave me a 
> bit of hope for Twisted's WSGI support, but I don't know whether any 
> action has been taken.

Great.

Jim

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