[Zope3-dev] Re: Python version for Zope 3.4 ?

[Tres Seaver]

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Jeff Shell wrote:
> On 9/28/06, Martijn Faassen <faassen at infrae.com> wrote:
>> Jim Fulton wrote:
>> > Baiju M wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>   What is the target Python version for Zope 3.4, is it Python 2.5?
>> >
>> > That's a good question.  I fear it will take a fair bit of work to
>> > get to it and, frankly for me there are higher priorities.
>>
>> I think we'd be okay in not supporting Python 2.5 yet for this release.
>> Python 2.5 has just been released, and the 9 months or so will give it
>> time to gell out, Python extensions a bit of time to catch up with the
>> newer version, and for us to do some experimenting. Linux distributions
>> will likely still be supporting Python 2.4 (along with 2.5) at that
>> stage as well.
> 
> Are you talking not-supporting Python 2.5 at all? Or just not wanting to
> require it?

The proposal is not to support it at all, unless somebody "takes one for
the team" and works out all the nasty breakage which 2.5 induces on Zope.

> If Zope 3 can't at least run on Python 2.5 within three months of
> Python 2.5's release, I don't think that looks good for us. I would
> hope that by being more "Pythonic" and free from the old
> ExtensionClass magic - especially in Zope 3 - that Zope could keep
> better pace with Python. But nine months? A year? Can I expect the
> developers of toolkits we use, in some cases more heavily than Zope 
> itself, like SQLAlchemy to hold off on requiring Python 2.5 for that
> long?

The change from 2.4 to 2.5 is *massively* disruptive for a framework
like Zope:  much more so than any change since 2.2, I think (maybe even
2.0/2.1).  The hardest bit is the change to the way the compiler works:
 RestrictedPython is completely incompatible with the new AST-based
strategy.

>> So unless a volunteer steps up to do lots of hard work between now and
>> march next year, let's stick with Python 2.4. Otherwise let's plan it in
>> for Zope 3.5 and Zope 2.12
> 
> I really really really hope it doesn't take that long to be able to
> at least run on Python 2.5: even if it has to be with some caveats or
> mild warnings.
> 
> If security and restricted python / security proxies are the main
> issue, what about if one is running Zope sites with absolutely ZERO
> through the web code - no page templates, nothing - can't there be a
> lighter weight security implementation that wouldn't take half a year
> of "lots of hard work"?

Even if you have no templates defined TTW, Zope3's security machiner
still needs some support from RestrictedPython for handling
filesystem-based templates.


Tres.
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Tres Seaver          +1 202-558-7113          tseaver at palladion.com
Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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