[Zope3-dev] Re: AW: major packaging reorganization happening in 3.4releases?

[Philipp von Weitershausen]

Roger Ineichen wrote:
>> On 02.10.2007, at 14:25, Jim Fulton wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2007, at 5:25 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> Besides causing us a lot of problems here at the Grok 
>> sprint, I also 
>>>> wonder why in the world are we doing major packaging 
>> reorganizations 
>>>> and releasing them as minor 3.4.x releases? You'd think such a 
>>>> reorganization would warrant a 3.5 release!
> 
> Sorry, I can't resist to answer the question with some 
> black humor:
> 
> I don't know, probably ask the release manager.
> Ah, right, we do not have a releas manager anymore since 
> all developer have to release their eggs by itself. 

Sorry, but blaming this on the eggification is just a cheap shot. We 
*do* have a release manager for 3.4. His name is Christian Theune. He 
wrote a wiki page [1] that specifically spells out instructions for 
release 3.4.x. eggs. And the 3.4.x eggs are in *stabilization*, as the 
wiki page accurately says. Stabilization does *NOT* imply moving stuff 
around like you did. This is 3.5.x business.

> Again, don't take it personal! I'm not pointing with 
> my finger to anybody. I just point my finger on the
> situation we have right now.

I'm much in favour of the work you're doing (separating pure Python 
components from their browser views). But with all due respect, Roger, 
all you've been doing right now is pointing your finger at this 
situation. I think a more constructive point of view would be looking at 
how we can *improve* this situation. Let's hear it: what's *your* 
suggestion?

> But what does slowdown mean? Do we need to slowdown the 
> development or do we have to slowdown releasing eggs?

I *think* that Jim means slow down refactoring things and moving things 
around. Releasing already *stable* stuff is perfectly ok.

> Or do we need to slow down till we have a better development 
> process or tools? If so, can we make progress on that?

We should definitely discuss the development process. I've tried to 
write down some rules [2]. Let's discuss those. Let's improve them. 
Let's stick to them in the future.

The last two weeks have given us perfect examples of what NOT to do. I 
think we can all agree on that. Most of could've been avoided if the 
process had been followed. At this point, I don't really care much about 
what the process is, as long as it's clear, reliable and easy to follow.



[1] http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/StabilizeEggPackages
[2] 
http://svn.zope.org/*checkout*/Sandbox/philikon/foundation/maintaining-software.txt

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