[ZWeb] Not another ___Nuke site, please

robert rottermann robert@redcor.ch
Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:08:53 +0100

> > To Plone or not to Plone
After having worked intensively with plone sites I did write an articel I=
published on DZUG which is CMF based. I'ts like going back to a long=20
forgotten area.

Plone is just so much better!
However I do not believe that plone is only a bunch of skins you can take=
leave. I does alter the way how things are done rather profoundly. You wo=
build a site to use plone only or not use it at all.

I you would see an other plone site that does not show it's parentage loo=
k at
which is the business oriented brother of www.swisszope.ch


Am Montag, 13. Januar 2003 19.56 schrieb Jeffrey P Shell:
> On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 09:55  AM, Ausum Studio wrote:
> > Wow! What a busy weekend. Although many statements have already been
> > discussed, I just want to contribute with my two cents, as a member o=
> > the
> > community commited to Zope and nzo (with ideas and time), and who
> > firmly
> > believes that "the world of Zope content is only as good as Zope.org"
> > (quoting Paul). Of course I'm not among the just-feature-requesters
> > because
> > inspired by the winds of last year efforts for nzo, I've been writing
> > code
> > in the sense of my suggestions. You can find info about them at the
> > bottom
> > of this message. Cut to the chase:
> >
> > The role of Zope.org
> >
> > Let's face it. We are competing with all sort of CMS systems out ther=
> > Many people believe like us that we are leading the OS content
> > management
> > game, but unfortunately the 'loosers' are getting the fans. Why is
> > that?
> > One possible reason is that czo isn't contributing to give people the
> > image
> > that we have in mind when we think about Zope. Zope IS "the swiss arm=
> > knife of the web", but czo is saying it's less than any 'nukish'
> > community
> > system. (Please remember I'm talking about outsiders' subjective
> > impressions).
> > So, given the chance to upgrade it, why to conform ourselves with the
> > weblogish style? Why to resemble the accomplishments of PHPNuke, or
> > PostNuke or AnythingNuke? Do we really need Zope to look like it was
> > just
> > another nukish site? I say no way.
> I say no way also - mostly because those sites, like the *dots are a
> confusing mass of sprawling links and little information.  But there
> are good weblogish styles out there as well.
> > What nzo could have in the context of the work already done and the
> > timeframe we don't have
> >
> > I say Personalization. Let's make it all personal that it could be. W=
> > know
> > Zope delivers fine in this subject and IMHO we need to make nzo more
> > personalizable than SF is claiming to be. Do I really  need to downlo=
> > (and store) products that are less sized than the mean overall size o=
> > the
> > pages I'm browsing at?  Isn't it better that nzo remembers what I've
> > already 'downloaded', so that I don't need to fill my local file syst=
> > with dozens of tiny files?
> > Do I really need to open the whole ring of Zope sites to get to know
> > what's
> > going on with the community? Isn't it better to make nzo to show me
> > relevant external content by means of advanced syndication?  If I was=
> > seasoned Zope developer, do I really need to see the "Zope is this",
> > "Download Zope here"  pieces of content, every time I open nzo?
> Yes.  Should you have to log in every time you open NZO just to avoid a
> "Download Zope Here" piece of content?  Personalization is not worth
> it, unless it's basically a way of allowing you to track product
> releases that are of interest to you.  But at this point, we start
> getting into the large-volume-of-user-data issue again.  I'd like to
> keep that issue at bay for as long as possible in hopes that it will
> make NZO easier to migrate to Zope 3.
> I again say: look at <http://www.php.net/>.  Downloads, Documentation,
> Links, Resources, etc.  I think it's much better that we help new users
> and curious visitors answer the questions "what is Zope?", "how do I
> use it?", and "where can I get more help?" than that we hide such
> information from people who know the answers to those questions.
> Finally - you shouldn't have to log in in order to use the site, and
> the site shouldn't go through dramatic changes when you do log in.  And
> personalization shouldn't happen based on browser identification,
> because you shouldn't have a different Zope.org experience if you're at
> home or at work or at a coffee shop.
> > Zope has largely sold the concept "develop faster". I'd like to add t=
> > concept "move faster throughout your site". DHTML menus has been out
> > there
> > for a long while but they really haven't been seized in the way a
> > content
> > management system would require. So at least a basic level of
> > navigation
> > facilitator menus-based is also a must, in my opinion.
> If a site is simple and effectively well organized, you should be able
> to move through it quickly without needing DHTML menus.  They're a nice
> bonus, but they shouldn't be necessary.
> > To Plone or not to Plone
> >
> > -1 to Plone. This is out of the scope of this message but you can rea=
> > my
> > statement on the subject as a reply to the following thread:
> > http://www.zopezen.org/Members/huima/News_Item.2002-11-19.0150
> I've made some comments here before.  Plone, like the CMFDefault,
> doesn't have to *look* like Plone.  Plone rounds out some of the CMF's
> potential by filling in holes (that are intentionally left open,
> thankfully for those of us who have to build other types of content
> sites that are not community oriented) and providing extra services
> that the base CMF implementation doesn't provide.
> <http://www.zope.ch/> says it is powered by Plone, but I think it's a
> much better looking site than most Plone sites tend to look.  I'm not
> sure if it switches skins to look more Plone-ish for those who prepare
> the content, but the public side looks nice.  ZopeZen is a similar
> story - it looks somewhat Plone-ish, but not too much.  And ZopeZen is
> more than just some replaced page-templates in the skins layer, it adds
> and modifies some policies and services to better fit the type of site
> that ZopeZen wants to be.  (I'm not saying Plone is ugly, but it
> certainly doesn't fit all situations).
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