[Zope3-dev] Number of languages in Zope 3

[Steve Alexander]

Max M wrote:
> Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
> Lot's of blah blah snipped ;-)
> 
>> To avoid the need to know Python, use only the TTW point-and-click 
>> facilities of Zope, most of which aren't yet written, but are planned 
>> for.
>> Or, use J2EE and choose Java instead of Python. Or use 
>> CGI/Other-server-technology and use the languages of your choice. 
> 
> 
> The problem is that all of your above aproaches are useless in practice. 

I was pointing out that these languages are there for a reason: they 
make things easier. There is a long-hand alternative in each case. If 
people generally choose to use the special language, then it shows the 
special language is an improvement on the long-hand alternative.


> The reason that people like php, asp etc. is that there is a relatively 
> small core they have to learn, to use technologies. If Zope has this 
> humongus core that needs to be learned, it will be problem.

This is a straw-man argument.
You list two templating languages (or, a templating language and a 
template/scripting language) and assert that they have a "relatively 
small core". Then you say "If Zope has this large core, it will be a 
problem". Well, if .NET has a large core, someone who uses all of that 
core will have a lot to learn. If J2EE has a large core, someone who 
uses all of that core will have a lot to learn. This is only a "problem" 
if the costs of learning outweigh the benefits of doing so.

A better comparison would be to compare learning PHP or ASP to learning 
Page Templates, and perhaps writing Python scripts.


Chris Withers listed five languages: a programming language, two 
templating languages, a simple configuration language and a complex 
configuration language.

Someone who wants to install Zope will need to know the simple 
configuration language (ZConfig). And that is all.

Someone who wants to write their own product will need to know a 
programming language (Python), perhaps a templating language (Page 
Templates) and a complex configuration language (ZCML).

Someone who wants to write templates will need to know a templating 
language (Page Templates or DTML or both).

Chris asked:
 >> What can be doen to reduce the number of languages necessary to know 
 >> in order to use Zope 3 completely?

I replied:
 >
 > Why do you consider that a desirable goal?

I need an answer to this question before I can make sense of what 
problem needs to be addressed.


Here's a comparison.

If you want to fully understand a project written in the ".NET" 
framework, you may need to know all of these languages, plus the 
configuration language that .NET uses.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/partners/language/default.asp

How many languages do you count there?

--
Steve Alexander