[Zope3-dev] Re: Packaging pre-proposal/notes

[Tres Seaver]

Richard Jones wrote:
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> On 17/02/2004, at 3:11 AM, Tres Seaver wrote:
> 
>> Anthony Baxter wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, but this stuff is hard. The people who're trying to work on it 
>>> have to do this in their spare time - for instance, the current pypi 
>>> system.
>>
>>
>> Note that PyPI invested effort to add Trove metadata, which I would 
>> call "nice-to-have", and left out dependencies, which I would call 
>> "crucial".  I am not trivializing the effort required to add 
>> dependencies, either;  I just don't consider PyPI very useful without 
>> them.
> 
> 
> This is getting off-topic now, but I think it's important to reiterate 
> Anthony's comment. Send Code. Distutils and PyPI are open to further 
> development. Some people at some stage had some spare time to put in the 
> effort to get something implemented. In my case, I knew I had to 
> explicitly narrow the scope of PyPI or I'd never finish, and 
> dependencies didn't make the cut. I always intended that they be added 
> some time later. Possibly by myself, but most likely by someone else.

Believe me, I know *exactly* how that happens.  I was trying to point 
out that Zope3 needs more from distutils than it currently supports.

> Distutils and PyPI are open code.
> 
> If you think PyPI's currently "pathetic"

Just for clarity, I think I used "pathetic" to refer to distutils' 
handling of data files, not PyPI;  that handling is a "bolt-on," due 
largely to the fact that distributing large numbers of data files wasn't 
on anyone's mind when distutils' design was laid down.

> or not "very useful", then feel 
> free to fix it when you have the spare time. Otherwise, stop the 
> name-calling. It just makes those who have put in the effort feel like 
> shit.

I certainly didn't intend that;  my perspective on PyPI is that it has 
promise, but that I can't make effective use of it without dependencies. 
  The phrase "RPM hell" describes the feeling I get, looking at a 
package distribution system which lacks dependency management.

> I'll note that PyPI is actually quite popular though. So I guess it's 
> useful to some people.

Yes, I am sure that it is.

Please accept my apology for anything which came across as offensive.  I 
want very much for Python and Zope to have a fully-fledged package 
distribution framework, and I appreciate the work which the community 
has contributed so far toward that goal.

Tres.
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Tres Seaver                                tseaver at zope.com
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